Chat Conversation from Triffles

[adenikea]

17:36:28 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
hate to be obtuse...living their truth?
17:36:33 From Emily Wessel to Everyone:
It was me (Emily)
17:38:04 From Ashley Glickman to Everyone:
Paul, this would be finding what you believe to be your true identity whether it has to do with gender identity, sexual orientation, or even simply living the best life for you.
17:38:51 From Katie Martin to Everyone:
That was me. Paragraphs about Clare.
17:39:23 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
Thanks, Ashley--concise and thoughtful
17:42:38 From Tammy Schoen to Everyone:
I teach it.
17:42:41 From John Day to Everyone:
Teaching it right now.
17:42:43 From Lisa Hayes to Everyone:
We just taught this this week.
17:42:46 From Emily Wessel to Everyone:
I've used in as a choice one-act play.
17:42:47 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
I wish I knew about it at the start of the year!
17:43:05 From Katherine Cordes to Everyone:
I teach it and really focus on the thesis activity.
17:43:13 From Susan Hedgcock to Everyone:
I spoke about the hexagonal thinking approach.
17:43:53 From Annalise Attreed to Everyone:
I will be teaching it now that I'm aware of it. It's accessible, yet has lots of fodder for analysis.
17:44:15 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
True story? didn't know that
17:44:16 From Beth Warshauer to Everyone:
At some point, would someone speak to using the play rather than the short story? Discussing with a colleague earlier today -
17:44:37 From Tammy Schoen to Everyone:
I teach the play…not the short story.
17:44:42 From Katherine Cordes to Everyone:
I didn't know there was a short story, Beth. (I only know the play.)
17:44:44 From John Day to Everyone:
I used the play and talked about the stage directions today.
17:45:06 From John Day to Everyone:
The short story is A Jury of Her Peers.
17:45:16 From Beth Warshauer to Everyone:
"A Jury of her Peers"
17:45:26 From Katherine Cordes to Everyone:
Ahhh, fascinating, Beth and John. Thank you!
17:46:18 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
TY, John
17:47:19 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
Stage directions carry SO much weight here!
17:47:52 From Laurie Skop to Everyone:
Yes, the stage directions were so important — the way the women look at each other is telling. A stark contrast to Shakespeare’s stage directions.
17:48:01 From John Day to Everyone:
The symbolism is fascinating.
17:48:11 From Melanie Jones to Everyone:
So much of the misogyny is revealed through the stage directions.
17:48:19 From Lisa Hayes to Everyone:
Also, the table - half messy, have clean.
17:48:35 From Tammy Schoen to Everyone:
Yes…I pretty much always have mixed gendered reading.
17:49:05 From Lisa Hayes to Everyone:
*half
17:49:13 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
Same. LOVE having a boy read Lady M
17:49:13 From Ashley Glickman to Everyone:
I agree, Melanie!
17:50:10 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
WOW! A great question!
17:51:11 From Adenike Natschke to Everyone:
The Gothic element in Jane Eyre.
17:51:27 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
No, but I will
17:52:21 From John Day to Everyone:
Melanie Jones has also used Hexagonal teaching very well in her classroom.
17:52:54 From Laurie Skop to Everyone:
Can you define what it is?
17:53:11 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
yes, please
17:53:47 From Ashley Glickman to Everyone:
This resource is quite helpful: https://nowsparkcreativity.com/2020/03/hexagonal-thinking-in-ela-ultimate-guide.html
17:54:54 From Laurie Skop to Everyone:
Thank you!
17:55:26 From Brandi Wallin to Everyone:
Thank you, Ashley!
17:56:53 From Ashley Glickman to Everyone:
I found that it helps to make their learning and understandings visual.
17:57:54 From Emily Wessel to Everyone:
I really like how these questions are included in the textbook on the same page as "Trifles." It's a great way to focus students. I took notes specifically on these question topics while I was re-reading it last night.
17:58:36 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
my incoming 9th graders still cant write a thesis statement
17:58:48 From Adenike Natschke to Everyone:
I have to say my students struggle with writing a thesis/claim.
17:59:08 From Dana Saunders to Everyone:
Paul- some of my seniors still can't. It's tricky
17:59:27 From Tammy Schoen to Everyone:
One challenge with line of reasoning is that students want to focus on the devices…which has always been a problem. But with line of reasoning…we have finally found a way to force them to focus on MEANING.
18:00:42 From Anne Farmer to Everyone:
I would definitely like access to this activity.
18:00:45 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
Yes, please, Katherine.
18:00:58 From Ashley Glickman to Everyone:
Yes, this would be fantastic@
18:02:46 From Nikki Wilson to Everyone:
Kate, I love the idea of using a Likert scale to evaluate the thesis statements/paragraphs. 🙂 Tammy, I agree with you re: focus on meaning. Agreed.
18:03:33 From Adenike Natschke to Everyone:
I find that my students mark harder then I do. They are able to provide a rationale as to why the essay warrants that score.
18:03:42 From John Day to Everyone:
I think question 5 here is interesting since the Sheriff is the husband of Mrs. Peters and the dilemma she must feel caught between gender and justice or perceived justice.
18:08:52 From Tammy Schoen to Everyone:
Yes…because to ‘contribute to the work as a whole’ is how the students can get to the ‘big’ answer (universal) and perhaps even begin to attack sophistication.
18:09:32 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
That precision can come from a simple A,B,C that would form the body paragraphs, yes?
18:10:12 From Nikki Wilson to Everyone:
The difference between thesis #3 and #6 speaks to what Tammy just addressed. #6 only addresses an identification of literary element. #3 extends to some kind of a thematic interpretation. Birdcage = freedom.
18:10:18 From Tammy Schoen to Everyone:
Paul…yes. I think it gives them something to focus on when they start with precision.
18:11:19 From Lauren Benedetti to Everyone:
I would like to use the play this year. I am about to start my feminist unit and have used the short story "A New England Nun" by Mary E. Wilkins Freeman in the past. There is a canary in the short story that is symbolic. There are also symbolic instances of birds in The Awakening by Kate Chopin. I think all of these pair nicely with this overlap, but many other connecting themes as well. All are written by American female authors around the turn of the century.
18:11:19 From John Day to Everyone:
I really like this activity because it does make the students think and revise. Kudos to whomever came up with this.
18:11:22 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
3 feels vague/factual
18:11:47 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
nice analogy
18:12:42 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
Can we address #4 as well?
18:13:10 From Lisa Hayes to Everyone:
Yes!
18:13:21 From Katherine Cordes to Everyone:
For your future reference (I don't want to distract you from the discussion) -- I think you'll need to be signed into a Google account to open this, but it *should* ask if you want to make a copy -- which will give you a form you can edit and use: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1L6_DcQ6cVc5qPnyWHVw3MAczW1ID_CrCCcldVq2LmDA/copy?usp=sharing
18:14:09 From Brandi Wallin to Everyone:
Thank you, Katherine. That worked! 🙂
18:14:26 From Anne Farmer to Everyone:
Thank you, Katherine.
18:14:49 From Annalise Attreed to Everyone:
Thank you, Kate.
18:15:07 From Tiffani Tang to Everyone:
Sorry! It just wanted to play on its own 🙂
18:16:32 From Tammy Schoen to Everyone:
Using some of the short films on youtube to intro these is great.
18:18:10 From Nikki Wilson to Everyone:
It would be interesting to use the language of the social sciences (seen with Likert scales) to extend the discussion to address the actual impact of a situation. What is the variable that impacts an outcome that also reflects a universal theme? To what extent do family relationships positively or negatively impact healthy psychosocial development? To what extent do unhealthy family relationships contribute to destructive coping mechanisms?
18:18:21 From Tammy Schoen to Everyone:
They begin to focus on trying to get the sophistication point instead of answering the question.
18:18:22 From Adenike Natschke to Everyone:
I break my students into groups and assign them different critical lens. We do this in conjunction with Jane Eyre and The Awakening.
18:18:32 From Adenike Natschke to Everyone:
*lenses
18:18:57 From Adenike Natschke to Everyone:
Yes
18:19:25 From Tammy Schoen to Everyone:
As far as sophistication…it’s helpful to give them an essay that got a 1-4-0 and then discuss how you can ‘layer’ in sophistication. So…we aren’t changing the ANSWER, which is necessary, but we are trying to level up?
18:19:46 From Katherine Cordes to Everyone:
Great idea, Tammy!
18:19:52 From Carlos Escobar to Everyone:
Great suggestion, Tammy!!
18:21:02 From Nikki Wilson to Everyone:
Love that poem! 🙂
18:21:33 From Emily Wessel to Everyone:
Our 10th grade teachers introduce critical lenses to our Honors classes so many of them have experience when they get to AP Lit. I usually have to review them but I don't have to start from scratch. We practice with poetry, as well.
18:24:01 From Brandi Wallin to Everyone:
I start with what I call the foundation. Once kids have mastered writing the thesis, only then can we even broach the subject of sophistication.
18:24:05 From Laurie Skop to Everyone:
You are so right. I find that many of my students don’t even vary their syntax, let alone write with sophistication. I have to start by explaining different kinds of sentences and pointing out the repetition of their simple sentences.
18:25:21 From Dana Saunders to Everyone:
Thank you for saying that, Carlos. I am a brand new AP teacher and I feel like I haven't even had time to "teach" sophistication. I've been calling it the unicorn point all year as we try to focus on the rest of it
18:25:30 From Susan Hedgcock to Everyone:
Maybe there should be a disclaimer that this is just one way! lol
18:25:52 From Robin Aufses to Everyone:
Yes, it’s just one way!
18:26:19 From Tammy Schoen to Everyone:
Row B is worth 4 points…sophistication only 1 point. The ANSWER is what is most valuable.
18:26:21 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
I'm with you, Dana!
18:26:40 From Brandi Wallin to Everyone:
Dana, I don't really teach the sophistication point. I teach kids what it says on the rubric, and I show sample essays that exemplify that elusive point, but I just don't have time to teach that point.
18:27:05 From Douglas Uehling to Everyone:
Something I have taken back from the reading is to encourage students to develop a voice that is sincere and thoughtful. It really is something that is foreign to them. They have rarely had the opportunity to be taken seriously and are expected to give the 'right' answer. I've found this really opens the door for those students capable of receiving that sophistication point.
18:27:07 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
40-50 minutes 4 dys a week make it hard, Brandi.
18:27:34 From Katherine Cordes to Everyone:
Dana, I agree -- and I've been teaching the course for quite awhile. It really is so much more about the kids in front of you and meeting them where they are..
18:27:38 From Emily Wessel to Everyone:
I do the same thing, Brandi.
18:27:45 From Renee Shea to Everyone:
But, Brandi, you are “teaching” sophistication — by showing them that it’s not a piece that can be added … it’s part of the whole analysis!
18:27:46 From Brandi Wallin to Everyone:
Yep. Paul, I agree. I'm on the 4x4 schedule, so I have 18 weeks total.
18:27:57 From Paul Harmon to Everyone:
I find that the college essay work heps develop voice
18:28:26 From Brandi Wallin to Everyone:
Renee, good point. 🙂
18:29:00 From Anne Farmer to Everyone:
I struggle with time too. There is not enough in my 47-minute classes. The bell rings and I feel like we are just getting started in AP.
18:29:00 From Carlos Escobar to Everyone:
Douglas, that's precisely what I was talking about today! Stop searching for the right answer...what does that even mean? Granted, there are some very wrong answers...but there isn't a single right answer.
18:29:46 From Annalise Attreed to Everyone:
Late comment on sophistication: As a rookie AP teacher I was taught that a 9 "sings." The new rubric gets us away from that mystical criterion and concretizes it by offering specific paths of thinking --alterative interpretation, context, etc. without requiring an uber-sophisticated style in what is essentially a draft.
18:30:26 From Katie Martin to Everyone:
I have another appointment and need to leave promptly. Have a great night, everyone.
18:30:34 From Renee Shea to Everyone:
Thanks, Katie!
18:30:37 From Katherine Cordes to Everyone:
Bye, Katie!
18:30:51 From Emily Wessel to Everyone:
My students are reading choice poetry collections right now and one of the options is "Deaf Republic." My students wrote a letter to their poets and the letter to Kaminsky was so powerful because of the connections the student is bringing in with what is going on in the world right now.
18:31:23 From Nikki Wilson to Everyone:
Thank you so much!

[RobinA]

Thank you so much, Adenike, for rescuing the chat and sharing it with us. I loved reading it over this morning, in part for the content but also for the group's enthusiasm and expertise. It's clear that we could have spent another hour on Trifles (not such a trifle, after all), and that we would have had fun looking at the short story, "A Jury of Her Peers" as well. In fact, we probably could have spent another hour on just that title! 

I was very interesting to hear about hexagonal thinking and would love to be a fly on the wall in your classes during one of those discussions. Kids talk differently (better?) when they also have something to do with their hands. I was also interested in the suggestion of using "A New England Nun" by Mary Wilkins Freeman and "The Awakening" by Kate Chopin along with Trifles. Maybe my connection to "The Power of the Dog" was a little out there, but I really recommend the novel, by Thomas Savage, which moves faster than the film, and would be fascinating to study for not just character but for setting--so many interesting ways to connect setting to theme and character development. 

It's obvious that Sophistication is much on our minds, but we had some helpful voices of reason last night reminding us that the Answer is what matters; it is, after all, worth 4 points. And in that Answer is line of reasoning, a skill that we teach every day, in every class discussion, implicitly or explicitly. I recommend taking a look at Lit & Comp's writing instruction on Sophistication which ends each of the three opening chapters and contains examples of good answer paragraphs that have been rewritten with a layer of sophistication. But more important is the instruction on thesis statements and evidence; that's the stuff that's teachable, imho. 

Here's that activity we looked at last night. It's also in the full slide presentation and in Lit & Comp, which you should be receiving as part of your party favors.   

Please stay in touch and PLEASE add comments here. I'd love to hear what you wish you had had time to say or chat during our session last night.

All the best,

Robin

[ReneeTLC]

OMG!  I can't believe Adenikea captured this chat -- instantaneously  -- like magic!  Thanks so much to one and all.

Renee